March 2022

Nusantara - Asia's New Green Capital?


1530hrs to 1700hrs JKT (GMT +7) / 1630hrs to 1800hrs SGT/MYT (GMT +8)


In support of SDG

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About this Event

Southeast Asia’s most populous nation is moving its polluted, sinking capital. Home to 30 million people, Jakarta has undergone decades of rapid urbanisation, but its sprawling infrastructure is creaking under the pressure. Water is another big problem.

The capital is sinking faster than any other city in the world, compounded by sea-level rise. Torrential rain overwhelms drainage systems for half the year and only a third of residents have access to municipal water, forcing the rest to drill wells for potable groundwater.

The capital will move from Java island to the East Kalimantan Province in Borneo. Unveiled as Nusantara, the new capital will be a green and smart global “super hub” developed in stages until 2045, says the Indonesian government. The futuristic design shows a well-connected city with modern public transport, powered by renewable energy.

Environmentalists are sceptical about these ambitious plans. While the city will be built on cleared land, there are concerns that the move will increase pollution in East Kalimantan and further destroy rainforests that are home to rich wildlife.

President Joko Widodo has positioned Nusantara as an opportunity to create new jobs and boost Indonesia's economic might. Setting the ambition for the country to become one of the world’s top five economies by 2045, President Jokowi has called the US$32.5 billion Nusantara a “magnet for global talent and a centre of innovation”. What are the key issues that will define the path of Indonesia's new capital?










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------ Event Transcript ------

A very good evening to audience and panel of speakers. Welcome to Eco-Business’s dialogue session, Nusantara - Asia's New Green Capital?

I'm Ruba Nackeeran, Eco-Business’s South East Asia partnerships manager.

We are also Pacific's leading media and intelligence organization dedicated to sustainable development and responsible business much progress has been made within the ESP and sustainability space in us our Pacific, and globally, since we first established

ourselves in 2009 as the go to platform for us and development on these issues.

As our coverage of the region continues to expand the interconnections between the social and environmental elements of ASEAN economy are becoming richer and more critical.

This is also why equal businesses work has grown in its scope and depth.

We are proud to be hosting this important dialogue today. As part of our ongoing effort to cover developing news across the region.

Join us as we examine Indonesians Part two is creating a smart green hub, featuring four Indonesian experts. Each and authority in their respective fields to kick off our session, I'd like to invite juniors to equal businesses executed director to deliver

her opening address Jeunesse The floor is yours.

Thank you, Rebecca Salama sorry, good afternoon everyone, and thank you for joining. I'm Jonas you executive director at eco business. Now since robot has already kindly gave an introduction about your business.

I will go straight into the topic today. So the topic is certainly one that is pertinent not just to the 273 million Indonesians, but also very much for ASEAN biggest economy.

When the news of Jakarta capital city relocation broke first time it came with a dose of controversy, perhaps even unsurprisingly, the critics pointed out that the process of passing the capital city bill was too rushed.

And there was not enough public consultation done.

Now the consultative process is critical, of course, not least because the 33 $32 billion project is expected to have significant impact on the environment and indigenous people living the large areas of the mountain.

And well capital relocations like these don't happen every day, Indonesia's decision is not really unusual. In fact, fellow ASEAN neighbors, Malaysia, and Myanmar have already done so in the past two decades, with Putrajaya and the people, administrative

capitals respectively.

And so many observers continue to point out that the risks and concerns are important to note, and but also we need to know that there is a high level understanding that is required in this decision.

Now the district strategic move to the east Kalimantan province in Borneo is also to relieve the economic, the governance human activities, and most pressingly environmental burdens that Jakarta is currently bearing, and perhaps the greatest push factor

in this difficult journey, is the fact that not Jakarta, is the fastest sinking city in the whole world today.

However, If we want to counter this argument, whether or not a green city development can really be green, or even if the city is developed even if the city is developed on existing cleared land, the impact on Kalimantan rich biodiversity ecosystems is

likely to be substantial.

So the public narrative is that by President Yoko Ono and his cabinet is this Indonesia is committed to ensure that loosen Tara will be a competitive Smart City, one that is agreed, based on the green economy with a longer term vision.

So from a sustainable development perspective, this long term ism is indeed an important guiding star public and private sectors. Today I like co pilots in a cockpit flying together, both with strong interdependence, to ensure that the journey with passengers

have bought this handled responsibly.

So as such in today's context where climate change is becoming so significant can loosen Tara, put its best foot forward as Asia's next screen capital.

I may not have the answer today, but together with my colleague, Megan C and Ruben acumen, we are very pleased to bring together, some of the country's most critical thinkers, to challenge the thinking around Indonesia's most exciting city development.

And we hope that this important composition will help guide, decision making, as Indonesia charts its own future.

Once again, thank you very much for joining us today. I hope this session serves its purpose and shaping a better understanding of the path ahead. Now, over to you, Megan.

Thank you, Jennifer setting the scene of our discussion this afternoon. I am Megan see director of partnerships at eco business, and I'm very honored to be your moderator today.

Just as I used to do so speakers, I would like to invite our attendees to and so pulled over prepared for you, which will take into the panel discussion, the pole is right there right now.

So, the joke will be administration of vengeance museum tower as a sustainable city.

And President Jacoby's 2020 population census speech and ideal urban environment division was invoke quoting the adoption of renewable energy. Mass Transportation being electric and autonomous people walking and cycling, and they're being neither floods

nor traffic jams. With that, the Christian for the audience. His Name one action that's needed to realize the vision of reasons our as a green capital.

I'm going to leave that Christian there for a little bit for once you start to put their questions into the link that were shared. So as you start to see you know some answers pop up on the screen hopefully soon.

It's now my great pleasure to introduce our panel of distinguished speakers this afternoon.

They are.

But we are no Jannati president and board member of an Indonesian Global Compact network. And so president commissioner of PG Roger Wiley cooperation that Jessica hung up he founded executive director of PC lifecycle, Indonesia, got the accent circular

The Jessica hung up Feat. Founded executive director of PC lifecycle, Indonesia, the xn circular economy and renewable energy Professor business advice of a wing group and educators and the similar Mater, president of the Indonesian association of urban

and regional practice.

Thank you, because we're taking the time to be with us for you today.

As I see answers, kind of pop up on the screen right now. And in case you don't know how this goes. The bigger, a word is, the more answers are being put to that same phrase or word.

I see they're very big one green infrastructure, I see some sustainable energy accident public transport so we'll just let this go on for a little bit more. And you know, I would love for the audience to stay very engaged throughout the conversation using the chat function as well. We will also be having a q&a session

be having a q&a session now speakers Lisa so please do type your questions into the chat box. And you know if you are sharing about the dialogue on your networks, please do use the hashtag XEB conversations and also eco business as well.

So with that I like to take the first question to all the speakers.

In your opinion, what's up the government's top priority implementing the move of the capital Tunis and Tara.

I'm going to pass this time to Dr. Jessica, to share her views on this question.

Hi Megan Hello everyone, thank you for having me here.

Interesting question there. What is the top priority, I think, in addition to the physical infrastructure prepare ration that I think is already in progress.

Everybody's already think about that I think one of the important issues, also mental preparation for the move fear, whether it is for the people from Jakarta, the government officials and also the people in Parliament and is really required yeah because

they will have a lot of visitors, a lot of not only visitors, I actually migration, and that would need some adjustment Yeah, we need to have that kind of perspective how accept the accept that the people who are coming from Jafar maybe I'm from Jakarta

mostly to Cali month and so I think that is something that the government needs to think about as well because it can it can create some, you know, difficulties as well.

If it's not properly prepared. I think that's that's my take on this because I think you had this work with go through the infrastructure and everything and it seems from the plan for for the many aspects of the green capital integrated sustainable capital

is already on top of mine off from everybody.

Thank you so much for your for your response Dr. Jessica, I'm going to move on to the sun.

Thank you, Mike. Then, good evening all, I think, from my perspective, the most important thing that the government needs to do is the vision, you need to start with the same patients.

And everybody in the stakeholder should be able to drive the patience to be achieved that goal. And it should be also the but the timeline. And let me come with investments.

I think that surely that what I can inform and what are the challenges also is not only moving the capital city, but also need to be consider about the remaining like a chapter, what happened with the next year after they get it was the move to the new

one that I think will be more challenging to discuss, they give.

that I think will be more challenging to discuss. Thank you. I just wrapped up the examination to your point, we will be discussing that later on. But on that vision I thought that was a very interesting point.

Jim Would you like to share your feedback on this. Yes. Okay. Well, first is to move off the capital and try to build this new Sonora capital city is a.

It is an ambitious, but I think it is a strategy can missionary decision.

I think the best thing would you like to do the set aside.

Julius mentioned, this also people got a body, some people, yes and no and all those things. But the fact is this already passed by Parliament. So maybe some more know what still needs to be done.

Easy, completing all this is hot, installing the whole necessary institutions, and then another accumulation related to the implementations, so that it is not confusing, in terms of the implementation, like on.

So, and this also needed basically all this communication on this planet should be communicate, communicate it and also have a mass stakeholder participation, especially with the people in government by itself.

Okay. Now, certainly, you know when we are talking about this one is good the business what are the impact all of this one. So, in some of the administrative and process I think anybody bottom one is also about the lemon settlement issues on demand.

Because this is a potential to any dispute later on. If it is not done properly.

So, and then the next one is also, because, you know, the point mention about this green infrastructure that means there is a master plan is needed to be finalized, I'll be in terms of how to build the city that comply to whatever the vision to become

So what we need this was published the secretary at the office.

And then so that communication can be done properly, more public participation in this process that will be taking the long, you know, not easy if you've been doing correctly.

And then also that the government has been sort of establishing what they call the eight principles and a 24 KPI for this one, at least one should be communicated, and should be implemented.

And finally, it should be done in participation of everybody in Indonesia, we call it common Oh, Thank you for that very, very insightful opinion from your side in terms of the top priority.

And lastly, but not least for this first question, but Andy will continue.

Yeah. So, basically I agree with those speakers before we can see from the three point up here are three level of the observation. I think the first one.

You see, last week when President went to a night January, 74, governments in Indonesia you saw you saw that he and others, local leaders, was trying to send the message that capital development has paid serious attention to the forestry and also to the

environment yet.

Maybe if you can share a little bit about the.

This is it. It's already set and set again the capital Shantha using concept of diversity.

So again, this is also the ceremony for planting three.

Again, this is a campaign, a public campaign that the government has serious attention on this for a city concept and this is also necessary for the plantation, that's the first point.

The second point, we need to know the whole structure of the city, how it can be translated into this passion planning, and also into their master plan like but do not get mentioned before.

So if you see this map.

This is the audio

me We can hear you I think you muted yourself.

Okay, so.

Can you hear me now. Yes, now.

So if you see this black polygon, the black line. It's the total area 250,000 hectares here. So if you see the green polygon here. They are trying to connect this into green corridor.

So again, there are some of the issues homogeneous for us that needs to be had done and the nice so dense, it can become more healthier habitat for the white light.

They also try to connect the blue.

Blue space. Yeah. Leave we're in also the belly up and beer. So, again, the plan. I'm in the, in the paper on the paper. We have also the commitment for that, even 75% was located for the forestry and also the an open space.

But the point I think we need to know the monitoring tools here. When you turn again Appalachian tools whether those development for the green concept.

Also, cuts, not only the forest and lend you space, or in the climate in terms can be saved. Follow FOLU for us and then your space but also the infrastructures, and we need to ensure that the infrastructure was built, was is going to be built there has

also the green, or even equal principles. Yeah, I think that's also we are looking for, for the government to set up the monitoring and evaluation framework to ensure that those vision will be translated into the program, and also into the area.

So that's fine. My point.

Back to you, Andy. And there was very also insightful with that image and the visuals that you provided us, but you know before we talk about you know the heat and except for I always think that we can look back as well.

So, Jessica to you before we get into, you know this development of this and tower is a smart city. We will, you know need to touch on why that is even that need to move from Jakarta.

So, in your opinion, what are the key lessons that should be taken away from the development of Jakarta, and the building of nuisance era. That's Indonesia some capital.


Now it's interesting. Yeah, I've lived here almost my whole life here in Jakarta, and it is a it is a crowded city. It is ever expanding CP every time we expand.

With the new development maybe on the, on the suburbs on the outskirts of Jakarta, maybe we have learned better infrastructure Yeah, but in the, in the, in the central itself may be essential infrastructures, like wastewater treatment, you know, waste

facilities underground system, or even transit system, that is, that was not in the beginning of master plan here in Jakarta we never. It was never envisioned I think, at that time, you know, I don't know 300 years ago, approximately.

So, with that limitation, I think it made it difficult to be happy to have an integrated city of what we aim in Jakarta itself is really hard by saying that oh I want to utilize my wastewater into, you know, a sewage bond maybe we want to hire for some

bio gas from the sewage is impossible to do that at the moment and to have that implemented in Jakarta, at the moment, you have to, you know, basically, remove everything and then the other ground so it was really, It is really impossible to have that

and I think I see Jakarta development.

you know, in the past was, like, an ad hoc here. Robin race we have to fix it quickly. You know, it was sometimes emotional changes, you know because of emotionally.

Let's say like there was flood and then people will put another layer on the road to race the road and the street without actually fixing what's going on with the, with the, with the water flow underneath so we have some fix several years of lawyer by

the previous governor, but it's not applicable to everything so we still have a lot of problem with even, even if we are saying about waste Redman Where should our waste go is actually outside the carpet we don't actually have a a landfill, a proper landfill

or a proper within Jakarta itself is actually under the under the other seat the arm the other prophets who I may say, then, hopefully, when we have this new capital.

We have a life cycle perspective, I would say, we tried to think synergy Glee in I would think of it like an industrial some symbiosis where we have integrated wastewater water the forest, you know, integrated system for that so it is a real opportunity

for us to have like a clean slate. Now that we know better. Hopefully we can implement that as, as the freaks and actually already mentioned as well and I do not have to mention the implementation will be somewhat important as well to make sure that we

can deliver. And hopefully, learning from what happened in in in Jakarta, we can identify what kind of risks and what kind of potential opportunities that we can do better in the, in the new in the new capital I think another thing as well.

Maybe this will be

related to like the people itself here. The how this going to be a huge transition for for the people in Jakarta, and we are at the moment may be partly individualist this I think we are going to go that way because of a metropolitan city.

I don't know whether that would be something will happen as well in the new in the, in the new capital you're looking at it, socially, as well. I think that's that's my take on the key lessons from Jakarta, Megan Yeah, yeah.

Thank you, Jessica I mean you point out so many good points I feel like I need to stay on you a little bit longer but let's move on. A few on that point where you said you know, we know what went wrong with your partner, you know, we have the chance to

redevelop a city from scratch again. So I'm going to pass the next question on the exam.

a city from scratch again. So I'm going to pass the next question on two topics and, you know, what Dr. Jessica said and you know with knowledge as well that our president wants to create a sustainable green city from scratch, but also considering that

Indonesia's renewable energy sector, currently only provides about 11.5% of national energy and the new capitals huge about you know three times the size of Jakarta.

And already building a new capital city will already emit quite a bit of carbon from there. So how possible is it to realize this vision of that sustainable green city and and you know what needs to be done to get there.


Thank you, Megan.

I discuss this also with the

advisory board for the president because they asked me how we can develop the new capital city in the system that way. So somehow.

We have a official meeting at a time. And one of the thing that is challenging, is we need to have the first thing before we do the implementation is actually, we need to have a good conceptual design on that, because every project needs to start with

because of design.

You put your pieces on board, and then you bring all the resource, and then try to make it happen. And then you go to the next space basic and engineering design and also it goes more to details in there.

And during your principal design one of the most important things is also the how you make your master plan become sustainable. So, at least. This is how we can learn also from others from other countries, for example, when they try to move their capital

city like in Brazil and some others, they are following three steps, which is, which are more important so they start with designing the, the people how they can work together with the new engineers people or community development over there, and also

how we can bring the, the community that not belong to the area and then try to work together with the local community so that's one thing, and also the other thing is about the culture shock.

Also, that will happen for sure. And this is what what also needs to be consider for them and let them.

There are several steps after that also for people interaction and so on. And the other one is about the how we can make this can be profitable.

And what is missing a theme, in my opinion, that the design of the jacket by itself has not been designed properly to follow that visions, for example, when you talk about the Mr.

So, when you move to the new capital city, let's say in 2000 2030 25. Yeah, by 4045. Yeah, sorry, the dozen 45, it means that you know he'd be be given boy important MRT that also happening with the speed train in from Jakarta to bundle that also will

reduce their revenue streams and that right. So, the design, the conceptual design between the new capital city and assisting city that will move.

They have to move to the new one is also need to be integrated from the beginning.

And the other one that is also important is the is the planet, visions, and then we talk about the system reality we talk about the secret economy we talk about the green technology we talk about other things that are related to reducing the co2 emissions

and so on. But we don't come as a project base, we should have the patience and the program first before we can go to the project level.

And this is what what we did when we discuss with the facility, repressed is unfortunately still some challenging. Sit. There are still some challenges to, to make the same patients for the team itself right.

So we have to come out with the same patients first before we can move forward.

And, yeah, I think that's also, unfortunately, a couple days ago we we heard about the news that SoftBank leave the investment.

They pull out the investment from the new capital city innocent data. There's also one, one of the channels that we have to face on of course the investment is not everything, but it's also can also make a challenge when, when one of the trust the investors

also pull out from the investment so there's something needs to be improved as their look to the patient itself, or they have to enhance enhance the strategy and also the, for the green development on that.

Because we are talking about the big investment here. I think it's about.

If I'm wrong, at minimum is about 32 billion US dollar, so it's quite a lot. And this is not including the additional investment that needed for the housing for the local.

The new stuff and so on. So, it's not in any development, I would like to emphasize this also of course, you will have a challenging part on environment, social impact and also the land issues, and also some others, including the energy.

But when you're talking about the energy part. And I think one of the beauty of the new capital city is we have a big river over there.

We call record tion, and I'm also working now. Today is my deadline for submissions to land on us because play man has appointed have five people, and from five.

Each of us need to bring all the recommendations for the president for G 20, and for the renewable energy, they appointed me, and also for the foot there another person's, and also some ideas.

So we have, we had also discussions on not specifically for the new capital city but for the general renewable energy sectors Indonesia how we would like to promote and push it forward for Indonesia.

And one of it was point over there is about how we can secure the green energy and sustainability for the new capital city. And the advantage for capital city also that there is no earthquake over there, which means that in Kalimantan does not.

It means that we can develop a big opportunity, also for the data center that I would like to come later on today. Thank you.

Thank you so much for that. I think one thing you said was that you know we need to have that vision and program first before even go into their project implementation level.

So project I'm coming to you next. You know you are a big baby play a big part in it and it is a Global Compact network and you know one of his mission is to promote facilitate and implement the UN Global Compact principles in Indonesia.

So in light of this you know what what Dr excited just mentioned and it would have moved into the center as well. How will I GC and parties and strategies, change or shift in light of the plan move tennis and Tara.

A young young person.

You know, just to continue what has been said by and Jessica, and I, I appreciate it. I came to Jakarta, for the first time is 1962.

Many of you are not born yet.

And so I I write my sequel from my hometown city in Milan, to Jakarta.


Because I was boy Skype boy Scott at a time.

Then I moved permanently to Jakarta. 1968.

During the time where the governor general anesthetic in was the governor.

That was at a time to god that was the largest, the biggest gamble, of the world. That's what he said. Right. And therefore, even started with our casino and all the control pressure moment to create your data into metropolitan city.

So that was the time is 6068 76 and 7071 is a place where basically just gotta start waking up and trying to be what they call the metropolitan cities.

There was no really long term vision income office space architecture and space, especially on the sidewalk is One Laptop city, Indonesia is I like that one city, I just put one CPE in Sumatra they call it 1000 shop house, and they are proud of this one

person shop house in Korea the county.

The city has no character that is no culture characters.

There is no culture characters. Basically the CP system you sound like a bunch of shops for the people, for the world. Okay, for the better to be.

And therefore, I just want to emphasize what I mentioned, very important, is this position, strong position and full commitment of the city. Architecture CPB sign long terms.

Okay, to make it livable, and then also consistently win. Now, this CP CP here is MCC Sankara capital city. Okay, is movement.

Fast Five stages, and the 2045.

From now, so it's Yes, many, many years. Okay, so it is not something that you know next year or something, it could be more prevalent gradual and you sign from the beginning, from now.

Okay, and hopefully that design is the green architecture.

Infrastructure whatever system may be easier to track all the work to paradise


And I would like to say that it is not by moving to capital, it is not necessary that we want to be took it to cut I will be still growing.

The center of the business up, while at the same time, you see the intention of the president Jacoby also develop a theory or eastern part of Indonesia.

Certainly you know we are looking at this, working closely what's going on, what are the developments. And then we would be responding to this development accordingly.

But I do not see any sign of change so much apart what we are doing is an agreed upon back to mainstream that the principles of dependency upon compact on the area of human rights, labor, and firemen anti corruption.

Okay, we have we are not going to have a change in some of our focus items in Global Compact now I want called Five thematic StG focus related to the human rights.

I couldn't based on this one piece humor right women right to the right visibility, and so forth. And then also embedding woman whether the company the jobs.

And then also, involving woman whether the company the jobs. Okay, another thing is also do a paper environment which is the climate worker.

And then, sustainable fashion, sustainable ocean, they should really sorry that. And then there's some ethics and also the last time you said education's.

be so well is talking about this climate. Okay. And I think we are talking about equality, a mission and so what that means we are talking about the bottomless water pollution ocean pollution fashion pollution fashion is and what the most, one of the

most polluting only that the Natalie do.

Because you because women are only wearing once and then by another class.

Now, so

that is one thing that is one thing that I would like to propose.

Okay, is a new thing that come up, and it has been in our patient and plan many years. And that is by exam. Okay, and you can help also, I would like to propose Indonesia to change the time zone.

Now we have a treat time zone.

Okay, the western part of Indonesia, and then, what in Russia, and Russia. Okay, they don't have any spot. Okay.

Geographically, I mean that the time zone is no longer on the test geography is a chocolate or reason to politics economy and so far.

Okay, so how come Petro Canada is GMT plus seven Singapore is GMT plus eight.

Okay and Bangkok the and people are seven and a Hong Kong. So, so what we agreed to do except now, one more thing, Jakarta is GMT plus seven.

The new capital is GMT plus eight.

Is it.

So I think the whole process now we have to think about it and it's time for me I propose that you're in the previous president, I'm going to propose again, this one.

Joker Elysia should change to become a new one time zone, adopting the time zone percent with Singapore and banning Viva like Malaysia also right and militia, good for tourism would fall

for this stock exchange things.

Okay, Singapore open to be open. Okay. And I think, Singapore, open the paper by Singapore.

And then, good for security. Good for these are analyze okay we have done the whole exercise for this one. Okay, and we have been discussing later on with this also to stop on these presidents your stuff.

So, one is the one that we're going to push you in addition to a lot of things that is being discussed, talking about StG is, and we are talking about these sustainable cities consumption and productions, and then StG 13 1415, the climate land.

Live in online live on water, and then later on one important one is the StG 1617 which is a partnership for everybody. So, that is basically what we're trying to do in other comments.

Thank you so much traction on that.

We never thought that time zone could be such an issue, but that's a different conversation for another day. I'm going to go to the next from the environment perspective, you know, we know that there's a lot of concern from environmentalists that the

move will have, you know, negative impacts on cutting mountains rain forest and all that buyer the pursuit of fits within the 14 parts as well. So, as an advocate of sustainable urban planning.

How can the developers, you know, ensure that minimal damage is done through environment well but in the city. And then the after as well and the development of city as a green have.

Yeah, I think is quite difficult question for me, but from what I saw.

And what have been seeing during the process of the movie capital. Now, planning, the city.

I think the government. Again, like I said, really consider area, but maybe the issues is number one is about.

What do you call it, land proportion Yeah, and it's already announced, and under the law. Yeah.

The moving capital is become 75 and 25%. So, at the first idea is a good initiative, it's a good spirit to protect the forests.

And then the first steps of development is trying to recover.

The reduce on the render the destructive one.

So we have also mining's

permit. There are so many and also the timbers, it should be.

Start Here, I think we need to ensure that the restaurant the economic will play a major role in the city.

But what I'm worried about the basketball team. We have already certain indicators that pro to the sustainability, but maybe the key issues and homework is about the implementation.

Because if we see as many Indonesian cities many emergency to satisfy the character, for example, the environment.

Usually place to be plays as the cost center.

We need to change the mindset, the environment. We care about environment is also some sectors that can create economy.

We call conservation economic.

So the city.

Need to reflect them. We don't need the big size of Mississippi. We don't need to make 3,000,005 million population of the cities to make our citizen wealthier.

But we ensure that our citizen inside.

Really can access the job. Daily can also make a social interaction.

So, as a proven professional who look from the outside of the process. I think the lead, give time in space for the authority.

Leaders Bambang Dhoni, because I think in the next month.

They will get the master plan, and the know presidential nomination.

So from there, you can also make an input and support here whether this is also something that rationally stick.

So it's become a rational plan, or we need to advise them and some of the improvement in because my understanding, green investment is something that we are trying to engage, but it's not easy to do make them come.

If I think, Again, we don't show.

We don't demonstrate our seriousness, in making the person lose and implementation of properly.

One thing that I can ensure is that the government has already also create that Nicole associate an important concept that.

So, if someone wants to build a success that they need to follow they can have the same data.

But again, let's see in the next two months, and next year, how it.

The business process of big place, and we can discuss later on, again, at this moment, I just want to show that there are some preparations that to ensure the Sustainable Development big place, but again, it still does on the paper.

The most important thing how this bumbling back to me can organize a team that can ensure that this criteria is principal, the standard really consider in the process for that but I do, but yeah you brought up a really good points on to another conservation

Yeah. But yeah, you brought up really good points on you know the conservation economy, putting in place social environments, you've got to also making your preparations for sustainable development in the center or but once again thinking a little bit of a

step back, Dr. Jessica, you know with the move to this and tower and you know put all the, I guess the focus as well being focused into some tower with Redux sustainable development.

How do you think the move there would affect Jakarta, and all the problems that already has right now. and the possible reparation plans are already in place.



with the movement of a lot of people yeah I heard it's going to be in a proxy of millions to the new capital, then it will definitely take a lot of burden off from Japan.

less transport I don't know if the traffic is going to be better. The Gulf it maybe have that already sort out.

We'd be but not moving.

Very frequently nowadays, but in another part like for example the issue of Jakarta sinking and I'd say, with the movement or the migration of people out from Jakarta, I think sinking can still be an issue, because at the moment.

It's all concrete in Jakarta, and we still need that, you know, either water infiltration system or green areas, or whatever it is to make sure that the water actually goes down to the ground.

So, we will not be sinking. But at the moment we, it's really difficult it's a bit tricky for this one yeah like houses we have a lot of houses here. Not many space, the infiltration system is not really implemented so I don't know how it will be done

in in a past few years because of the flood we developed some infiltration system to return back the water to the, to the ground. Yeah.

I think it must have helped but I don't know how much it has helped because at the moment. Even the whole job, I think it's still a wrap area, if you see from the water scarcity level.

So, I don't know whether the movement of people can be, can we can solve this problem.

be a metropolitan city, but with many or millions are going out maybe that we will have, we will suffer some sort of economic impact at the time even though is in a transition because at the moment in Jakarta we are leveraging on the number of people

is very easy like okay I want to, you know, get some groceries I just, you know, open up the apps and then in 20 minutes, people will come in and that's because the power of the people how many people are in Jakarta.

So I think one of the things that we should anticipate.

In addition to the environment which I don't know whether it can be improved. But in that will be the economic year.

Even though I think I see Jakarta is just like New York maybe or Sydney, we may not be a capital but it surely is a fibrin metropolitan area I think that will be the, the, I know pros and cons for for for Jakarta.

Thanks to the bunker Jessica for that.

Jessica for that. There are two points I really want to get to, which is one touch on people, and the second you know you touched on corporates as well. So I'm going to go to actually, like, June 1, in terms of the corporate perspective because I know that you know you

read ahead also, you know, I'm involved in various corporations. So what do you think are the key challenges for corporates and working through you know this move to news and tower, you know, what are the hurdles to setting up shop there, Steve Lee from


Well, first from the business point of view. So this is going on.

Okay, whether you're in a hotel you basements.

Whether you're out on a hospital. Hospital at a restaurant. The mining, I think everything's going off. The only thing that we have this moment that we need to look at something like for example that we need to have a smart communications between the

private sector business, and the government in his ministries, especially to the dispensation period, because now the whole ministry is the whole center of the approval is basically in Jakarta, but of course I'm officially resigned in the Philippines

and in the city is over there.

But there's a lot of things, the business approval.

Business dispositions whatever is with ministries

data mining, or whatever is in Chicago. So now with the minute with the Ministry move to MCC somebody Pepe Le TT, then there is a there is a need for transition but he's one, okay, because I didn't want.

I mean, we can you cannot profit because we are in the local over there. The boss is not here. And obviously, right.

So, the communication is becoming a more than, and therefore, I think we are looking for, anticipating some, some delay the process because of this people are busy with this setup of the moment, related to business operation which require these things.

Okay, you know, the new capital CP is surrounded by two big city. Somebody in that and I think these two places, become another new developing sleepy I don't know what those are called make us happy or not, but this one Kalamata mean surrounding will

As you see, you know that. Usually we have what we call these economic and development gaps between the western part of Indonesia, Sumatra, Java, but, and the eastern part of Indonesia.

it moves to sell Allison, it moves to unborn, it was a bubble and so on. And with.

We just one look as the southern got a couple lines of one, but we need to remember it at the same economic camp. There is our song called the information gap between Jakarta, and Papuan, we have a three hours different infrastructure communication gap,

and this is the reason why the eastern buttons behind.

Okay, not only economic culture. The education's the informations nine o'clock prime time here. People are any sleep over there at 12 o'clock. Yeah, this kind of things.

So now the business I would like the local business is Holly Montana will be moving up the people in Jakarta, you know whatever the business is looking everywhere that opportunities there.

So therefore, the business the business from Surabaya cases people from this corporation Jakarta. They will also take a look at that, over there.

Okay, so this one is basically that like shifting, some of the burden and activity from Jakarta from Surefire to over there because I shall I choose to develop something in bulk or, or no, no, I think there's another opportunity in in Bali ba fine, so

Oh no, I think there's another opportunity in in Bali upon, so I moved to India for business over there, create the jobs over there. Right. But maybe I'm sitting there could be some people.

Students employees more thing because of the growth team over there. Okay, let's see, I see the big one, but remember this.

Okay. Megan. If you drive from Jakarta, up to the eastern part of syrup of Java, up to save money by new one.

This is a CP CP fail, it's not empty space.

So, and therefore, like Jessica mentioned. Now having this move at the same time also me to restore the environment issues in Java, not only about the waters Cassidy's.

Okay, now aside from this coming right draft flats.

Okay, and then Korea and all those things so it's a lot of work still to be done in Java. While we developing the new CP with the new architecture the new designs of MCC.

Yeah. So, and this one a lot of this one, the corporation can play a lot.

Okay, in the what we call the private public partnerships that also being promoted now with the government in Jakarta, how to create all of these developments, using this schemes of BBB.

Thank you for that position, again, a very interesting point I wish we had more time to kind of go on that for a little bit longer but I really wanted to touch on the, the social kind of effects of things and actually Robin also put a question here.

So I'm going to try to rephrase this question and we'll kind of combine it with a question that I already had for the exam. So, you know, considering that the new capital.

You know it's located areas already previously management presentation mining couldn't session holders.

You know how do you think that the growth of this entire will impact the lives of, you know, communities already living that indigenous communities as well.

I think, Robin also refers to the free portal and informed consent.

So, you know, with that, you know, do you think that these local indigenous communities will be able to coexist with development is going on and, you know, if not, you know, how would they be using and will they be using, you know these free prior informed

consent principles to protect the rights of these indigenous communities.

Yeah, thank you. I would like to show you.

This is just an example of how we design

the project in the system it will way from starting from the scratch.

We have to consider about this, what we call the spider web.

This design is actually really made for the Amsterdam, so it's already implemented in Amsterdam, and why I chose this because I used to work with the Dutch embassy before, but this is not about that that this is how but they call it sustainability.

So, whenever you start the design because after design, and then you should be able to put the priority of the things. So from the product perspective, and then the people and the planet.

And then each of them you put the top priority and then you see your, in your spider web. From which direction you will go. So this is what I think that is what is missing.

During the conceptual design of Indonesia when they start to make the, the sustainable design. The second one.

Don't get me wrong, I always support that we have to move this pressure, we have to move from Jakarta, that's for sure. But how we would like to move, and how we would like to design the new characters, is another way, because we cannot just move because

we Jakarta have the flood problem everything and that sinking, and then we move to the new capital city, and we create the same problem right.

What happened after 40 years, when we are in Kalimantan, it will impact all the community will come back to your questions later on, it will impact our community and also the, the challenge will be there.

I'm also involved in, in one important project now in not Kalimantan, for example, is a post mining project for the cold side. So, I understand.

It is in near to Molly now about two hours for Molly now Molina is also a capital of the Philippines, that just move the expanded the document and because it used to be woven together with his Kalimantan, and what happened with the new Molyneux CD.

It is just like in the middle of the jungle you have a concrete building. That's really challenging to see it.

That's different than the conventional architect, so I was there with you already and I was there with Tara and these guys are really sustainable agriculture that I learned a lot from them.

So, the first thing when we design for example, on the backside of of me is roughly the design that we would like to do for the

capital city of Santa Clara, this is at least what we have been talking a lot of course this is not official one yet, but roughly to be like that. If this is the real dissent that we will promote to to the new capital city you can see there is no there

is no local wisdom on that. So where's the Kalimantan counter. The Kalimantan Countess is not there yet, so there is no, the route of Parliament and over there.

And you can imagine, all of these like steel concrete, everything you bring it from overseas, not from the other island right you bring it from overseas, of course, because some of them is important.

And then you can see all the traffic's when you calculate it back. The carbon emissions is going up. You try to make the sustainable city, but at the end you moving too much, or even transportation materials and so on.

And then you maybe in one year you already.

Extend the co2 emissions that should be able for Jakarta, maybe in five years, because it's a massive development. Right.

And I also doesn't see that the, for example, for the post mining sectors. there is no strict regulation from the government. At this moment, to provide with the better concept of the purse money.

What they do now, they normally choose for the conventional one they put additional forestry and that's it.

So what we would like to do is, We also would like to bring the look of wisdom for the new post mining, which is, for example, that the local community at Daya Kenya, in not Kalimantan, they're very familiar with a lot of things.

And now they also do batek for example but it is one. Like, I we have today is it like in Japan national tradition also there's also in Malaysia I heard and and what is strange for me, the coloring.

They bring it also from Jaffa, and when we talk with the local community why why you don't do the coloring by yourself. You have to for us. You have a lot of source that you can do your own coloring.

And it doesn't stay there still buy from, from a Jaffa, so what you can imagine that if we can bring the.

This expertise knowledge and everything to be able to do the POS mining also that will create another value that we, we don't just covering back all the forest, over there, but we also bring the new.

We call it the new brother been so the new capture that civilization civilizations but for the, the city itself, so it's totally different mindset. When, when, when you see the back side of me.

All of them is complete. Right.

So, you can imagine, because I know a lot of a project for constructions, so you have a lot of trailer, you have a lot of open land because the access is not.

You cannot turn on your trailer and everything. You of course, later on you can put the tree over there but why you don't just the local material to be able to construct over there.

So this is what we call structuring mega gone concept of the materials in the system in a way. So, try to reduce the and use a lot for the local materials to be able to use for your new capital that's one thing.

Secondly, come back to your questions regarding the commodity. And I think there's also some challenges like you put a very exciting.

Yeah, very modern type of building, and what happened with the space for the community. The public space is the most important for the local community right so you have to create the space where they be able to work, they'll be able to do

to integrate with the, with the new design. So when we talk about the design, not only, not only for the building itself. So that's a totally different.

I used to, I used to work with Babylon so I know what is it proponents of it because I have 200 projects that working for IFC proponents done, but in the IFC performance.

Does that explain about the how we can put the.

The conceptualism patients from the beginning. So that's what's missing what is in it for one standard.

And when we talk about the STD, it's more compete, of course you have 17 StG that can follow but STD is also need to be implemented in the design from the beginning, not just like a topping on like visa, you need to integrate really integrate the design

and the is the key part.

So, yeah, that's what my expectations because we, we don't know what happened after 2045 is tried, it's officially in the lounge and 40 years of the dead we have the same problem that chapter so we have to try to avoid it.

And this is our challenge, and our chance, why because we start the design from the scratch. That's totally different, like budget and he said that when we try to develop Japan from beginning.

And when all time, when the Dutch structuring the candle and everything that's totally different what we have now. And then the city grow very fast, even faster than the design and the urban planning itself and then suddenly, it's also impact on the community

that nearby live over there. When you talk about the community challenge also like, like for example, that is in Bora Bora, that is a call what he called a gun electro, there's a name of gun electro maybe you heard about that, also the issue but it.

So, they, they have been there was a disaster in the past, there's a lot of fire and everything that people try to move from that area and then suddenly, the governor at the time that will, the new locations for the local community.

And then, A new.

The other governor, and they try to to push also for to go for the community. So, I tried to avoid the same thing was happening in Kalimantan Nathan, so we we don't say that we are creating the new innovations and inventions and the design for the local

but this is something like, like you're from, like, extra ratio guy coming to Kalimantan, and then you put everything there. And then the local community what is the role for local community in this design.

So it's not it's not been discussed, so that's why I see that the challenge, and the second one that I would like to put emphasis also about the mining side, about the forestry and everything should be able to start from now when we designed the city

like this.

We are not talking about only, only in, in, in East Kalimantan part, not only invested but also the whole element that will be impact, what happened with the airport.

The airport will be different than Now, of course, because even with the current airport, it's already quite a high traffic from one down everything that's for the client.

So what happened. If you bring additional people, and then worker to start this construction that really crowded. And where's the iPod. And that's also another questions.

And where's the board. Where's the Newport, how it can be built. Is it a sustainable way or not. So that's a part of a question that Steve puzzling me.

And, yeah, I really hope that what Henry was mentioned that the design will come up with the new system of the way. But basically, we're actually performance data doesn't mention about the material doesn't mention about the design doesn't mention about

the community that should be integrated, I know that Apogee performance standard number eight, for example, there is a seven and so on. But, integrating and the design is another way.

So that's the thing. One of the questions of myself so Megan. Thank you.

Thank you so much excited for that you've given us such a, so many, so much information that has been, you know, obviously very thought provoking as well, just wanted to remind everyone is one, you know, do put your questions in the chat box and also

to the speakers, we want to have time to cover all the questions that put up there so if you want to reply directly to anyone who you think can respond to please go ahead.

But I'm going to just actually open the floor to Dr. Jessica I'm not sure if you, if you had any kind of, um, I guess also feedback on whether sunset, you know, in terms of you know the the design of the city in terms of as well, either on the circular

Either the circular economy side of things as well how can we, you know, put this, you know, how can we also invite this into development of city, learning from from Jakarta, Jakarta is kind of lessons, the mistakes learn from this entire process.

From this entire process. I think maybe just to add on a bit here.

Within the planning, we need to really measure, measure how.

Because when we say, okay, maybe we're targeting net zero, how can we achieve that for example for this new, new capital. So we need to we need to have everything interconnected.

If possible,

as it is not only about having the data, but how are we going to use the data, what kind of analytics that we're going to put into to make sure that it is there because that data by itself, but nobody's doing anything with the data then it's useless.

So we need to do something about it maybe in the design phase, don't measure how it is. I see the capital is like an integrated industrial symbiosis, if I may say, or industrial following Industrial Ecology to make sure that everything has its purpose,

and there is something that will consume, whatever we are you know emitting or whatever the results of our activities.

soil in and Kalimantan is quite different.

Not so we have to anticipate that kind of land.

The type of soil, and also how we can i don't know maybe this is already within the design, including agro forestry in there so it's not only forest, it's not only you know big trees but we cannot make any capital, and for it so it's like, how we can

make money as well from that.

The forest so is. That's why I'm gonna fall asleep.

Yeah, that's the give, we can implement it so that's that's that's the word for from everyone left by generally mentioned collaboration within private, we've been public, you know, academics as well.

everyone like this is, this is what we should do together.

I agree with you thank you for that Jessica, I wanted to go to a point that was raised earlier by partnering on you know businesses also kind of thing too, we're moving there in time.

I know that Jessica will still remain that economic city as well, but you know with businesses moving over there obviously, for it to be that sustainable Smart City, you know, smart city programs will have to be started will have to start being developed

from scratch as well. So I'm going to go to und on this.

You know there's that notion that smart city programs you know focus only on the wealthy and marginalized, the less wall off because you know they neglect environmental sustainability and also social influence of it as well.

You know this is huge. The idea that you know digitalization ultra efficiency through technological means demands that would keep it and what to do population as well, to actually use these programs and also develop these programs as well.

I wanted to ask what your thoughts were on this view and you know what is need to ensure that no sin Tara doesn't fall into this potential Smart City pitiful.

Okay, um, I remember when the President your goal he said something.

Sorry said keynotes here in our IP 50 anniversary, last year.


The, the words likeness. So the Smart City is not blowed to

new technology, only, but to be fit to the people needs.

So that's, I think, my interpretation just that smart cities, only a tool and approach to get what we want our city have sustainability resiliency inclusiveness and so on, right.

So, when I think why he chose here, or his selected by God, because I don't know what he was a director at the one of the new township city in Metropolis in Jakarta.

I think because the new town has shown that through the digital at funds of technology.

They can manage more efficient organization, especially in. Make a safety and security at the city, and can also I think have more energy consumption yet at the example, the city.

But, of course, the capital.

Cannot couldn't select the pennant or the citizen because in the new Township, that developed by private sector and the tenants are the one who has.

Oh, wait, or can pay the hypnotic or the credits for the housing, but for the new capital on the new town that made by the government.

The low income groups who also has the rights to the city.

Low income groups who also has the rights to the city. So again, the technology, digital technology.

So we use properly, and by the needs of the capital itself we are so in debt, again, in that level of the concept.

I think what the government has now changed to the public.

We are on the track.

But the biggest homework and the challenges in the planning left.

And of course, in the programming and for financing level.

We still have major issues.

For example, if you want to bring the smart one to it's kind of to its extent that the Smart City Do you on this month technology that we want to bring to the capital.

Is it really the automotive space so, so be plugged in the next five years.

Or, for example, at a taxi now become one of the transportation in the most.

Then city in the world, for example, but the new capital, I think, starting from the small one, maybe around hundred thousand and become more and become more so, again, the programming will play a significant role to ensure that these sustainable city

can be deployed properly.

be deployed properly. One of the My, my, my strong point before because we advise or give input to the capital since 2019 years so I know from time to time the government tried to improve the public communication, I think the, the worst one of the weaknesses,

is the public communication so public has not been engaged, widely.

So that's I think the major challenges so when you want to convince the investors, the private sector, you need to open the blueprint of the city. So then, people know how to which location and how they can invest.

But what can I ensure is that the government has already the social and environmental safety planning level to the implementation and to controlling them.

But these tools should be operated by the Authority Board. Yeah, and the alternative board still has two months to manage distracted or organization, recruiting people and so on.

So it's this not the right time for us to assess.

We just only have time to give input Yeah, and I think, bum bum bum is the person who also in the integration time he mentioned that this is also associated city that has a emphasis on the participation of the public, and I think one of the result of

this webinar, for example, can be maker keynotes and we can also give an input to to the authority.

So that's that that's my, my, my point. So, again, the government has said God has students, which area that should not be exploited it should be restaurant, they have already.

This is an example that maybe I can show to the public. Yeah.

This surrounding of the capital we know already.

And then like I said before, we also have a green corridor. But again, this is still at the pending level.

And we need more time to to what I can say, to really to narrow down here.

And they have also prepared net follow senior net focusing men's net forests and linear space. Now we are under prepared by the Ministry of Environment of Indonesia so they have best line of the carbon storage there.

Although we know this is a industrial photos yes so it's very low in the storage of carbon but they want to hit their agonize and they want to make a restoration boat that we can have more on mangrove plantation in the ballpark and Bay.

And we also have, I think, less than 10% of the

Porsche, but not the plantation for us.

And also, in my notes.

We also have plans to do energy, energy transition.

How then we can use the water.

The water power plan, and then we also try to use the solar panel, I have already planned.

And I think, again, the financing strategy and how to bring the great investment that I think Echo, is this will also help the government to connect.

We are here to support.

Thank you so much, Andy for that. I'm going to actually just was one more Christian to June and then, you know, I'm going to wrap up from the I know it's getting a bit late and people get tired but hang in there everyone.

Just one more question, actually, you know phrase I guess you know if you want to comment on what Andy said, and Dr. Jessica nice and Dr. X on this call earlier, you know, Please feel free as well but I get those so from.

You know what we're saying you know public private partnerships play a huge role in the development of this entire so sustainable city.

What are your thoughts on this and how do you envision that public private partnerships, you know, playing out in a long in a mid to long term in the department the city.


Okay. We are, we are talking about three P's. The first P is public private partnership, another three P is what bikes I mentioned people, planet profit.


OK, so the people plan to fulfill is basically the basics are these sustainable development, where we need to have a balance of the development between the economy business problem.

And also, in Harlem and that friendly, and it also has societies StG now go for high fees.

If you have 17 StG, it is basically five P's people cielo change.

Private become prosperity is us, me right prospering people people, and then planet is still planet, and then the two factors that is very important to get it done.

The first piece is peace, 50, his permission.

Which means saying that all of these things now is no longer everybody to in separately individually in government silo.

But should be together. And in order to do that, then you have to make sure that, inclusive piece and and also with the proper transparent and inclusive governance as well.

So that means that now that the data TB the trippy began by piece. Okay, a lot of our discussion about this what is expecting expecting this have decided we just something very interesting than the public we need to also or something like that, and so

I just want to mention here, but these are some actually there is a basic. It's a grand design has been set up over there in terms of how to do things and either to follow these assuming that you know this is the basis for example from 256.

k hectares.

Okay, the science thing that 75% should be a clean space, whereby 65% will be productive area and 10% will be for for production area. So it's already been decided that way.


Okay, big example really look out upon a mission. The installation of renewable energy capacity will emit 100% of this energy units. So that was a pretty what they are saying that 100% up renewable energy for CBS for the MCC things, saying that also 60%

energy saving for energy consumption in buildings, mature emission in 2045, in the area of 256 k, this is in consistent with the outlook of these StG vine Alicia for the hero component mission, also, at the same time.

Okay so, a lot of these are besides basic.

And in mind that to be achieved in terms of development of the CB that later on the architects that designer the space should try to follow these how to develop virtually into a 100% renewable energy.

And now I think sets to then become again one small talking about public partnership. It is a lot of opportunities. Again, this is the millions of dollar may a billion dollars for the installment opportunity for people for multi sectors working together,

opportunity for global investment, you know, green investment opportunity for the business, working together with government indicted activities.

And this is the came from the business point of view. Okay.

We look at it as a business, one more item from Bar Exam, and also part of the very important ones.

What we need to know what we need to the number and lots of pocket is the issue on the image in his right. It is already in the law.

Number two is also. Okay. And this is what we are talking about the business point of view, your guys, especially the people coming from outside.

Remember, every, every place here.

There is always a local wisdom that you would like to look at it. Okay, so do not just in bought something from outside.

Okay, without considering that our local wisdoms. Okay, that's actually a very good.

Follow, and that one is one creating peace.

For the people over there.

So this one is talking a lot of you this is a process that they've been, you know, it can be you.

Okay, This will be the years to do this.

And then I saw it I would say that maybe it is our 2d. It's also a look at it, participating, like, a lead by example for proposing this proposing that.

And this kind of thing is also talking about what kind of things that we need to consider when they call it, and have instead.

Become a spiritual government and so forth. So, so it's a long way to do. Okay. It'd be something like that to be finished by 2045. Okay. Hopefully this is 100 years of the mission independence, were at the time.

Okay, hopefully, the country become number five. Well, thank you so much for that and that's such a nice way to end office for, you know, we've come to about four minutes before 6pm So thank you again everyone you know for contributing such thought provoking

questions to our speakers, before we run off our discussion today I really want to just pause one final question to all speakers.

We know we're talking about vision we're talking about planning we're talking about implementation. So, we know that the move is scheduled to be completed in 2045.

If you had a crystal ball with you right now, what are three words we use to describe your vision of this entire 2045, and also just because writing, time is running a bit so I'm going to give 30 seconds for everyone to just give three words.

Okay. All right, I'm going to go to Dr. Jessica now.

Okay, three words that the seconds.

I think it's integrated inclusive and five been integrated where everything is interconnected, whether it's the tree the environment, and also show the city of it, respecting the locals in there, of course, and also fibrin yeah is real economic growth

for the local as well and I think that is something that is already in mine from our great leaders that we want to bring something as well to the, to the people in Kalimantan as well, to bring more economic in there so I think those three are the key

from, from my perspective integrated inclusive and vibrant, Thank you so much Dr. Jessica and grown up June.

Okay. Oh, I endless what Jessica said my tree but will be number one is leadership

is commitment symmetries cooperation.

Very, very good what Thank you so much. And does that make sense.

Yeah. For me it's difficult to f3, I will give you six environmental sustainability economic growth, and also the social equity.

So that's the most important and together they call it Sackler column. Thank you. That's very good one. Thank you so much.

And finally, last but not least, I can do.

I'm in a difficult position.

The state has already mentioned all, but maybe one year, I think we need to do restorative economic, it's a suit be the example, the capitals become the example of that.

The second one.

Digital city like metaphors, is something that I can imagine by 2045.

I hope I'm still there were 2045.

And then the last one, of course, urban, rural link gets yes so I think the city in the future.

Not, not being impressed like the percent that it's by the buildings, high rise building but maybe something that more greener and also has a plantation and we can also take foods from our yard.


So that's maybe something that in my quick imagination. So back to you, Megan.

Answer files part and do with that, thank you so much against because Dr. Jessica by June, Dr xn and vitamin D as well for joining our panel discussion today, before I pass the remaining time that you were about like to invite us because it's like a really

quick photo. Benjamin is right there, then sending biodiesel into kind of 321 of a smile and then we'll pass on attention. Okay. All right. Okay. Three, two, and one.

All right, thank you so much again speakers and the audience as well. I'll pass the time back to Rupert to close.

Thank you, Megan and thank you to our panel of distinguished experts for providing us a thoughtful discussion that on what's needed to realize the concept of new center being a smart green hub.

Now, the audience before you leave, please do spend a few minutes to give us some feedback on this event, via the link that will be provided in the chat box.

And don't forget to use our hashtags. If you're sharing your thoughts on this event, via your social network.

We talked about the risks. The opportunities. The challenges, the stakeholders, right down to soil conditions and even the differences of in the time zone.

The next, the next crucial step.

As pointed out by our speakers is for the Indonesian government to come up with a master plan. This will not only attract the right type of investors and private stakeholders, but also act as a reference point.

The standardized vision and strict with the standardized vision and strict regulations.

This will help parties involved in the sustainable development of new Santa safeguard the environment, as well as the interests of the existing local and indigenous communities.

I think it's safe to say that if implemented well newsletter will be an exemplary model, not just for ASEAN capitals but on a global scale as well.

With that, we have no come to an end of our dialogue.

I'd like to once again thank our speakers, as well as our audience for making the time to join us to the evening. I hope that you found this conversation as enlightening as I did.

Have a great evening ahead and we hope to see you at our next event. Right.

Bye. Thank you, everyone.